Talk:Great cleave
Strength pre-req Is Str 13 really a prerequisite for this feat? I think as a monk (who gets Cleave for free at level 1) you can get it with lower strength (can't check that right now). -- Olivenmann *Just to clarify. The prerequisite are required to get Great Cleave. This also means the Monk must get STR 13, BAB+4 and Power Attack. -- Chrominium 02:06, 28 Oct 2005 (PDT) How do the extra attacks work? Does this mean you keep making attacks until you miss? --66.93.11.67 October 2005 *I think it means that you get to keep attacking, and on each attack, if you kill your opponent, _then_ you can repeat. Just chews goblin hordes up! IOW, if you get another attack, and it does not kill the opponent, then your Great Cleave frenzy is over. Isn't that right? --Brick Thrower 12:36, 27 Oct 2005 (PDT) :*Correct. -- Pstarky 20:20, 27 Oct 2005 (PDT) *Great Cleave allows you to get 1 free (extra) attack for each enemy you kill in that round. Although 1 hit kills help, it is not necessary. -- Chrominium 02:06, 28 Oct 2005 (PDT) One-hit note discussion 74.96.127.60, I would disagree with your edit: "There is a common misconception that subsequent cleaves in the round are only possible if the previous cleave results in the death of an enemy, but this is not true." Not only does the talk page support the previous version of the notes section, but personal observation also confirms that secondary, tertiary, etc., cleaves only happen if the cleaved victim perishes due to the cleave attack, as outlined in the previous version of the article's notes section. Alaisiagae 19:59, 13 December 2006 (PST) * I'm using Great Cleave right now with a dexterity-based fighter doing 7 attacks per round. One-hit kills are not required. I should get a screen shot. People on the Bioware boards confirm this too. 74.96.127.60 20:07, 13 December 2006 (PST) :* I don't know what mod you're using. I've played my level 40 monk and my level 40 fighter a million times and they ONLY get great cleaves when they kill the last cleaved enemy in one hit, as of 1.68. The note is completely wrong and needs to be changed. --169.231.7.171 03:36, 20 February 2008 (UTC) ::* How closely are you watching the end of the combat round? I just ran two tests (using NWN 1.68). I created a situation in which my dual-wielding PC would fairly often kill two opponents in a single round, one with the main hand, and one with the off-hand. This assures that both kills were in the same round (since the off-hand attack marks the end of the combat round) and that the second kill was not the result of a cleave (since I did not take improved two-weapon fighting). ::**When my PC had cleave, but not great cleave, a cleave attack was triggered by the main-hand kill, but not by the off-hand kill. ::**When my PC had great cleave, a great cleave attack was triggered by the main-hand kill, and a second great cleave attack was triggered by the off-hand kill. :::I think that shows that the note was not completely wrong. However, it was a bit convoluted, so I revised it as I brought it back. --The Krit 16:00, 20 February 2008 (UTC) 12 attack cap *By using great cleave I have gotten well over 12 attacks between off-hand attacks.What exact effect does the 12 attack cap have? --RAMss 00:55, 9 June 2008 (UTC) :*Not sure myself, but Kail Pendragon added that note, and he usually gets things right. Sounds like we might need more people to check this out. --The Krit 17:15, 25 June 2008 (UTC) ::* You can get well over 12 attacks, however, the loss of off-hand attacks might be why Kail thought the cap would prevent this from happening. WhiZard (talk) 23:51, July 3, 2014 (UTC) Great cleave and darkfire I'm having a problem with Great Cleave triggering while using Darkfire, is this intended? I switched to a weapon not enchanted with Darkfire and it works fine, it seems that if the fire damage kills a target then it won't trigger the Cleave. -- December 30, 2009 * Cleave and great cleave only trigger when the the creature is killed by the actual hit. Damage from on-hit properties (such as darkfire) do not count as part of the actual hit. (They occur when a hit is made, but are not themselves part of the hit.) The same quirk applies to defensive roll -- if killed by an on-hit property, no saving throw is allowed. (I'll add a note here.) --The Krit 18:02, January 14, 2010 (UTC) Superfluous great cleave Can someone please clarify that? I didn't understand a thing about this superfluous great cleave. -- August 5, 2010 * If you don't understand what it is, don't worry about it -- it is more of an idiosyncrasy of the display than a game mechanic. (It is something along the lines of getting an attack labeled "Great Cleave" against your just-killed target then resuming regular attacks against a new target in the next flurry, rather than getting the rest of the current flurry's regular attacks against your just-killed target and a great cleave against a new target in the next flurry.) --The Krit 21:11, August 25, 2010 (UTC) Great Cleave & Attack Progression Let me see if I understand the attack progression of Great Cleave... so please check me. All GC attacks count as free attacks so will follow the same diminishing attack progression as any other free attacks like those from Haste and Divine Power. OK so far? I seem to remember a monk attack progression being broken into two separate progressions but perhaps I am confusing this with some other mechanism. The monk's normal attacks diminish at -3 while monk free attacks diminish at the -5 rate. I am assuming GC falls into that same category then. During polymorph, I believe all free attacks are simply "tacked on" to the end of the normal attack without any full BAB attacks. I remember testing this (not with GC specifically) with a hasted DP cleric shifter and never got any full BAB attacks except for the usual first one of the round. I assume again that GC falls into the same category and adds only attacks with diminishing BAB. Please clarify what would be expected when a GC is triggered with several opponents within striking range for a monk vs. non-monk and vs. polymorphed attack using creature weapons. TIA --Iconclast (talk) 17:46, July 3, 2014 (UTC) * Not quite. GC replaces a specific blow with a full AB blow and then adds in a free attack at the end. When you have several opponents that you are killing at once you will mostly see full AB blows, as the free attacks triggered from before are replaced with full AB blows and a new free attack is added in. I have had GC go on for well more than 30 creatures before, and the final blows after the 30 creatures were huge negatives. In those cases I have also noted the loss of off-hand attacks as the game wishes to end the combat round because the free attacks have exceeded their time quota. I expect you will find little difference for natural weapons, besides that free attacks are regarded as an extension to the main hand progression. WhiZard (talk) 21:48, July 3, 2014 (UTC) :* That's impressive. Didn't realize the free attack was employed the way you've described. So, except for WW's intrinsic immunity to flanking, the GC attack mimics that of a whirlwind attack, except with WW's guaranteed full AB by virtue of just selecting that combat mode while GC depends on a kill. Right? TBH, my play style typically avoids getting surrounded by several opponents at once within melee range therefore I have seldom had an opportunity to witness its effectiveness and stuck with just basic Cleave. BTW, is the effective target range of GC the same as WW, the 5-foot radius (a bit OT I suppose)? --Iconclast (talk) 23:11, July 3, 2014 (UTC)